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	<title>Comments on: Heavenly Creatures, Juliet Hulme, Anne Perry, and Rule of Rose</title>
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	<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/</link>
	<description>A spoiler-intensive RoR plot-theory blog</description>
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		<title>By: Terry Reed</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-303558</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 17:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-303558</guid>
		<description>When you say: &#039;Given medication that, it was found out later, impaired judgment in people...&#039; are you basing this on any evidence from doctors or phamacists? The reason I ask, Carl, is because according to Hulme&#039;s doctor, Dr. Medlicott: “Both Isoniazid (an anti-bacterial) and Streptomycin (an antibiotic) were used, but there was no evidence that they produced any psychological changes.” So neither of the medicines she was on &#039;impair judgement&#039; as Anne Perry has stated. According to Roche, the manufacturer of Isoniazid, after all these years, Isoniazid is still on the market and has ‘never been withdrawn for any reason’. According to Merck &amp; Co., the manufacturer of Streptomycin, after all these years, Streptomycin is still on the market, and has ‘never been recalled, withdrawn or made unavailable to customers’. Which medication are you referring to? It&#039;s certainly not any medication that Juliet Hulme was administered at any time? Thanks. Terry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you say: &#8216;Given medication that, it was found out later, impaired judgment in people&#8230;&#8217; are you basing this on any evidence from doctors or phamacists? The reason I ask, Carl, is because according to Hulme&#8217;s doctor, Dr. Medlicott: “Both Isoniazid (an anti-bacterial) and Streptomycin (an antibiotic) were used, but there was no evidence that they produced any psychological changes.” So neither of the medicines she was on &#8216;impair judgement&#8217; as Anne Perry has stated. According to Roche, the manufacturer of Isoniazid, after all these years, Isoniazid is still on the market and has ‘never been withdrawn for any reason’. According to Merck &amp; Co., the manufacturer of Streptomycin, after all these years, Streptomycin is still on the market, and has ‘never been recalled, withdrawn or made unavailable to customers’. Which medication are you referring to? It&#8217;s certainly not any medication that Juliet Hulme was administered at any time? Thanks. Terry.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Reed</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-292574</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-292574</guid>
		<description>&#039;Anyone researching all there is to know about Anne Perry ( Juliet Hulme ) will know that she came to repentence while in Prison. It hit home what her and Pauline Parker had actually done.&#039;

How did this coming to repentance manifest itself? What did she do? Cry a bit? Pretend to pray? Admit she&#039;d murdered someone. Promise to compensate the family she&#039;d helped destroy? Apologize to the surviving Reiper family? Hulme lied in her first statement to the police. She&#039;s a prfessional liar by trade, she constantly reinvents the past to make herself less culpable. Every interview she has she says something different about why she murdered Honora Reiper. Nothing she has said, does say or will say can be trusted. 

Exactly how did she &#039;come to repentance&#039;? And how do you know exactly - were you there? If not, it&#039;s just heresay. And more Hulme lies. She done nothing to show remorse or repentance.

Repentance is a change of thought to correct a wrong and to gain forgiveness from a person who is wronged and a deterination and a resolution to live a more responsible and humane life. It typically includes an admission of guilt, a promise or resolve not to repeat the offense; an attempt to make restitution for the wrong, or in some way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible.

You say she came to repentance, but Juliet Hulme has not tried to correct a wrong, has not gained forgiveness fro the person she wronged, has made no promise not to repeat the offense, has not made any attempt to make restitution for the wrong, nor tried in any way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible.

I see no proof or evidence in Hulme&#039;s actions to back up any idea that she has repented. The millionaire writer&#039;s deliberate decision to ignore the surviving Reiper family&#039;s financial struggles and debts (which she caused) as she pays out a few million to have her garden re-landscaped is cruel beyond belief... Repentance! I don&#039;t believe it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Anyone researching all there is to know about Anne Perry ( Juliet Hulme ) will know that she came to repentence while in Prison. It hit home what her and Pauline Parker had actually done.&#8217;</p>
<p>How did this coming to repentance manifest itself? What did she do? Cry a bit? Pretend to pray? Admit she&#8217;d murdered someone. Promise to compensate the family she&#8217;d helped destroy? Apologize to the surviving Reiper family? Hulme lied in her first statement to the police. She&#8217;s a prfessional liar by trade, she constantly reinvents the past to make herself less culpable. Every interview she has she says something different about why she murdered Honora Reiper. Nothing she has said, does say or will say can be trusted. </p>
<p>Exactly how did she &#8216;come to repentance&#8217;? And how do you know exactly &#8211; were you there? If not, it&#8217;s just heresay. And more Hulme lies. She done nothing to show remorse or repentance.</p>
<p>Repentance is a change of thought to correct a wrong and to gain forgiveness from a person who is wronged and a deterination and a resolution to live a more responsible and humane life. It typically includes an admission of guilt, a promise or resolve not to repeat the offense; an attempt to make restitution for the wrong, or in some way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible.</p>
<p>You say she came to repentance, but Juliet Hulme has not tried to correct a wrong, has not gained forgiveness fro the person she wronged, has made no promise not to repeat the offense, has not made any attempt to make restitution for the wrong, nor tried in any way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible.</p>
<p>I see no proof or evidence in Hulme&#8217;s actions to back up any idea that she has repented. The millionaire writer&#8217;s deliberate decision to ignore the surviving Reiper family&#8217;s financial struggles and debts (which she caused) as she pays out a few million to have her garden re-landscaped is cruel beyond belief&#8230; Repentance! I don&#8217;t believe it!</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Rosel</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-105066</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Rosel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 20:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-105066</guid>
		<description>Anyone researching all there is to know about Anne Perry ( Juliet Hulme ) will know that she came to repentence while in Prison. It hit home what her and Pauline Parker had actually done. They were in a fantasy world and temporary insane at the time of the offence. People can read excerpts from Parkers diary, that when she came upon the idea to murder her Mother, she had not told Juliet, then. It was only near the time of the offence that she told her. They both truly believed also that they were doing Honora Rieper a favour by getting her to heaven. Also they thought that it was only going to take one bonk on the head to do it. Of course that did not happen, and fear and trauma at the thought of the reprisal if they did not then stop the mother moving and yelling led to the continued onslaught.
From some reports I have read, it has been stated that the jury did think they were insane, but if they had brought that verdict in , the two would have spent the rest of there lives in a mental institution. Instead they did a finite time and came to repentenceand, have turned their lives right around, and are doing really well.
They had both had horrendous experiences as younger girls, spending long periods in hospitals and sanitoriums apart from their parents. Given medication that, it was found out later, impaired judgment in people. We are talking about two young schoolgirls, not mature adults.
We should all be glad and thankful, that other members of the human race have come through, and overcome the horrendous experiences they have had and are doing really well and contributing in a positive good way towards others. More so than the narrow minded nasty people that make poison comments without doing any research for the truth of the matter.
         Carl Rosel
         Auckland NZ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone researching all there is to know about Anne Perry ( Juliet Hulme ) will know that she came to repentence while in Prison. It hit home what her and Pauline Parker had actually done. They were in a fantasy world and temporary insane at the time of the offence. People can read excerpts from Parkers diary, that when she came upon the idea to murder her Mother, she had not told Juliet, then. It was only near the time of the offence that she told her. They both truly believed also that they were doing Honora Rieper a favour by getting her to heaven. Also they thought that it was only going to take one bonk on the head to do it. Of course that did not happen, and fear and trauma at the thought of the reprisal if they did not then stop the mother moving and yelling led to the continued onslaught.<br />
From some reports I have read, it has been stated that the jury did think they were insane, but if they had brought that verdict in , the two would have spent the rest of there lives in a mental institution. Instead they did a finite time and came to repentenceand, have turned their lives right around, and are doing really well.<br />
They had both had horrendous experiences as younger girls, spending long periods in hospitals and sanitoriums apart from their parents. Given medication that, it was found out later, impaired judgment in people. We are talking about two young schoolgirls, not mature adults.<br />
We should all be glad and thankful, that other members of the human race have come through, and overcome the horrendous experiences they have had and are doing really well and contributing in a positive good way towards others. More so than the narrow minded nasty people that make poison comments without doing any research for the truth of the matter.<br />
         Carl Rosel<br />
         Auckland NZ</p>
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		<title>By: Bef</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-47883</link>
		<dc:creator>Bef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 15:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-47883</guid>
		<description>I think her Tathea books were &quot;badly written, painfully badly written&quot; or  &quot;heavy handed and artless&quot; I think they are beautifully and masterfully written books looking into matters of the soul, struggle, sin, religion and the nature of the human heart. That book changed my life. The way she writes brings everything to life, just tugs at something deep within you and I think her past makes the book all the more beautiful, the love of God, the forgiveness, the mercy, the redemption no matter how grievous or terrible one&#039;s sin is, and I think people butchering the book purely from a academic point of view is wrong. I think that Book was touched by the spirit of God and I think that book has changed more people&#039;s lives that will ever be known on this earth. It is her greatest work and her most soul-searching piece.

Thank you Anne Perry and may God bless you so much for impacting my life. And to imagine I found that treasure in a heap of old books that were being sold for a song on the street. The devil always tries to keep us down but he will never succeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think her Tathea books were &#8220;badly written, painfully badly written&#8221; or  &#8220;heavy handed and artless&#8221; I think they are beautifully and masterfully written books looking into matters of the soul, struggle, sin, religion and the nature of the human heart. That book changed my life. The way she writes brings everything to life, just tugs at something deep within you and I think her past makes the book all the more beautiful, the love of God, the forgiveness, the mercy, the redemption no matter how grievous or terrible one&#8217;s sin is, and I think people butchering the book purely from a academic point of view is wrong. I think that Book was touched by the spirit of God and I think that book has changed more people&#8217;s lives that will ever be known on this earth. It is her greatest work and her most soul-searching piece.</p>
<p>Thank you Anne Perry and may God bless you so much for impacting my life. And to imagine I found that treasure in a heap of old books that were being sold for a song on the street. The devil always tries to keep us down but he will never succeed.</p>
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		<title>By: PokerNemesis</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-29150</link>
		<dc:creator>PokerNemesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-29150</guid>
		<description>Merging together the above topics of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes, social criticism, and Mormonism:

Doyle pulls no punches in his harsh depiction of Utah Mormonism found in the first Sherlock Holmes novel: &lt;strong&gt;A Study In Scarlet&lt;/strong&gt;.  

And if I recall correctly, the KKK also gets a negative depiction in one of the Holmes short stories.  So I guess Doyle does actually become a social critic in the Holmes stories sometimes. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merging together the above topics of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes, social criticism, and Mormonism:</p>
<p>Doyle pulls no punches in his harsh depiction of Utah Mormonism found in the first Sherlock Holmes novel: <strong>A Study In Scarlet</strong>.  </p>
<p>And if I recall correctly, the KKK also gets a negative depiction in one of the Holmes short stories.  So I guess Doyle does actually become a social critic in the Holmes stories sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: PokerNemesis</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-29149</link>
		<dc:creator>PokerNemesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-29149</guid>
		<description>continued from above--

Perry became a Mormon, in the U.S., shortly after leaving prison.  She is described as devout.

I was very surprised to discover it, much as I was equally surprised to discover that science fiction and fantasy author Orson Scott Card was a devout Mormon.  I was an avid reader of his works for a while too.

I think that Perry integrated her preachy tendency into good story-telling much better during her Victorian mysteries.  In those novels (as with Orson Scott Card in some of his novels), you can mistake Perry for being anti-religious because she will depict religious hypocrisy so unflinchingly.  Only in light of the revelation of devout Mormonism does this unflinching criticism clarify itself as being not anti-religious per se, but as part of a Mormon perspective on other Christian religions.

I think Perry may be growing more preachy, and more conservative (less of a social critic), with age.  Too bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>continued from above&#8211;</p>
<p>Perry became a Mormon, in the U.S., shortly after leaving prison.  She is described as devout.</p>
<p>I was very surprised to discover it, much as I was equally surprised to discover that science fiction and fantasy author Orson Scott Card was a devout Mormon.  I was an avid reader of his works for a while too.</p>
<p>I think that Perry integrated her preachy tendency into good story-telling much better during her Victorian mysteries.  In those novels (as with Orson Scott Card in some of his novels), you can mistake Perry for being anti-religious because she will depict religious hypocrisy so unflinchingly.  Only in light of the revelation of devout Mormonism does this unflinching criticism clarify itself as being not anti-religious per se, but as part of a Mormon perspective on other Christian religions.</p>
<p>I think Perry may be growing more preachy, and more conservative (less of a social critic), with age.  Too bad.</p>
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		<title>By: PokerNemesis</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-29148</link>
		<dc:creator>PokerNemesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-29148</guid>
		<description>Welcome, susan gillis!

In Anne Perry&#039;s Victorian novels she depicts an upper class that is largely quite lacking in empathy.  But her protagonists in those novels, especially in the Charlotte Pitt novels, are not that way themselves.  They feel deeply for others and are, in fact, actively concerned with social justice and not just criminal injustice.  Many of those Pitt novels emphasize particular social issues, such as antisemitism, women&#039;s suffrage, etc.  Most depict the mistreatment of the &quot;lower&quot; classes.  

Compared with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle&#039;s Sherlock Holmes novels there is an enormous difference.  Holmes cares only about criminal matters and extremely little about social injustice.  At most, one might hear a condescending exclamation of &quot;poor devils!&quot; out of him now and then.  

One can easily miss the hellish aspects of Doyle&#039;s Victorian London.  Perry makes the hell unavoidably plain.  To me, it is Doyle, not Perry, who depicts Victorian London with a lack of empathy.  People feel nostalgia for Doyle&#039;s London, not horror.

~

I also loved Perry&#039;s touching depiction of married life in the Thomas/Charlotte and the Monk/Hester relationships.  I could hardly stand Monk and Hester before they got married.  But marriage to each other seemed to improve both of their dispositions greatly.  Of course, it did not escape me that perhaps only someone who never married, as was the case with Perry, would depict married life in such an idealized way.

~

I admit, however, to finding Perry&#039;s WWI novel-series (and the novel &lt;strong&gt;Tathea&lt;/strong&gt;) unreadable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome, susan gillis!</p>
<p>In Anne Perry&#8217;s Victorian novels she depicts an upper class that is largely quite lacking in empathy.  But her protagonists in those novels, especially in the Charlotte Pitt novels, are not that way themselves.  They feel deeply for others and are, in fact, actively concerned with social justice and not just criminal injustice.  Many of those Pitt novels emphasize particular social issues, such as antisemitism, women&#8217;s suffrage, etc.  Most depict the mistreatment of the &#8220;lower&#8221; classes.  </p>
<p>Compared with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle&#8217;s Sherlock Holmes novels there is an enormous difference.  Holmes cares only about criminal matters and extremely little about social injustice.  At most, one might hear a condescending exclamation of &#8220;poor devils!&#8221; out of him now and then.  </p>
<p>One can easily miss the hellish aspects of Doyle&#8217;s Victorian London.  Perry makes the hell unavoidably plain.  To me, it is Doyle, not Perry, who depicts Victorian London with a lack of empathy.  People feel nostalgia for Doyle&#8217;s London, not horror.</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>I also loved Perry&#8217;s touching depiction of married life in the Thomas/Charlotte and the Monk/Hester relationships.  I could hardly stand Monk and Hester before they got married.  But marriage to each other seemed to improve both of their dispositions greatly.  Of course, it did not escape me that perhaps only someone who never married, as was the case with Perry, would depict married life in such an idealized way.</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>I admit, however, to finding Perry&#8217;s WWI novel-series (and the novel <strong>Tathea</strong>) unreadable.</p>
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		<title>By: susan gillis</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-29143</link>
		<dc:creator>susan gillis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-29143</guid>
		<description>I, too, have read all of Anne Perry&#039;s books and like the Monk/Hester and Thomas/Charlotte characters.  However, I feel all the characters lack empathy for others and are emotionally stunted.  I see that as a primary characteristic of Anne/Juliet and allowed her to rationalize the murder.  Also, she became religious and her books are a little preachy.

I wonder if she had any real meaningful relationships in her life post-prison?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, have read all of Anne Perry&#8217;s books and like the Monk/Hester and Thomas/Charlotte characters.  However, I feel all the characters lack empathy for others and are emotionally stunted.  I see that as a primary characteristic of Anne/Juliet and allowed her to rationalize the murder.  Also, she became religious and her books are a little preachy.</p>
<p>I wonder if she had any real meaningful relationships in her life post-prison?</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-22795</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-22795</guid>
		<description>Thanks to Atlus that had published this game. O.... yeah, I always fell free/great/sad/happy(I mean all emotion in my mind it&#039;s mixed one) after heard the music of this game. I think the music of this game it&#039;s great but don&#039;t know about the others. I am fan of rule of rose game I want asking something,,, every each of game have a next and how about this? well in the ending of this game windy is took by stray dog is she death or alive?! and before that she said like this to jeniffer &quot;Only you and your beloved dog that could be stoped him&quot; then after that, she took by stray dog. how about this? Well I&#039;ll waiting the next of this game I hope atlus could published it again I&#039;m delightfull if this it had the next and if there it was give me the new as soon as possible to my mail. Thank you very much ATLUS AND BE THE BEST FOR US</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Atlus that had published this game. O&#8230;. yeah, I always fell free/great/sad/happy(I mean all emotion in my mind it&#8217;s mixed one) after heard the music of this game. I think the music of this game it&#8217;s great but don&#8217;t know about the others. I am fan of rule of rose game I want asking something,,, every each of game have a next and how about this? well in the ending of this game windy is took by stray dog is she death or alive?! and before that she said like this to jeniffer &#8220;Only you and your beloved dog that could be stoped him&#8221; then after that, she took by stray dog. how about this? Well I&#8217;ll waiting the next of this game I hope atlus could published it again I&#8217;m delightfull if this it had the next and if there it was give me the new as soon as possible to my mail. Thank you very much ATLUS AND BE THE BEST FOR US</p>
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		<title>By: Eden</title>
		<link>http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/2009/09/08/uncategorized/heavenly-creatures-juliet-hulme-anne-perry-and-rule-of-rose/#comment-22504</link>
		<dc:creator>Eden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/?p=921#comment-22504</guid>
		<description>:) glad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://ruleofrosemysteries.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  glad</p>
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