The Mystery of the Disappearance of the Orphanage’s Boys
Posted by PokerNemesis in Clues, Mysteries, Plot Structure & StoryI don’t recall who it was who first asked about, or remarked on, the fact that we don’t see any boys at the meeting where Jennifer learns that she is the new Princess (in the “Stray Dog and the Lying Princess” chapter of Rule of Rose).
Some comment-makers (again I forgot who it was) had made the claim that some boys’ clothing can be seen strewn outside, in front of the orphanage, after the massacre, so it seemed to me that the boys must have been around somewhere, even though we didn’t see them in this chapter. But I hadn’t actually checked for myself to verify the report of there being clothing from the boys to be seen. I had only placed that task on my “get around to doing this eventually” list.
Recently, I realized that the boys are also nowhere to be seen during the cut-scene where Jennifer slaps Wendy at the end of “The Funeral” chapter. I don’t recall anybody, previously, pointing out that the boys are missing in that scene; if someone did point it out I guess I didn’t think it significant at the time. But it does now seem to me to possibly be significant. The absence of the boys there means that we don’t actually ever see the boys again in the game after the daytime portion of “The Funeral” chapter (at which time we can still see Hoffman, Martha, and Clara).
The cover of the storybook, “The Funeral” only shows girls at the funeral, and the massacre scene in the “Stray Dog and the Lying Princess” storybook only shows girls being massacred. Is this significant? It is hard to to say, as, in fact, we never ever see any of the orphan boys of the orphanage represented in the storybooks, the only orphans ever depicted in the storybooks are the girls.
Perhaps Jennifer isn’t really interested in the boys, and so mentally removes them from some of her memories?
Perhaps.
But perhaps it is worth investigating the possibility that it IS significant that the boys seem to have disappeared from the game when we are dealing with the time near the massacre, the time after Clara, Hoffman, and Martha disappeared from the orphanage.
There are actually a few puzzling clues in the game that might become interpretable by the hypothesis that something bad happened to the boys before the massacre.
So I decided it was time to see for myself whether there is in fact any boys’ clothing to be found scattered at the massacre site.
The only thing I found, that looked to me like it might belong to one of the boys, is a white tank-top shirt like the one we see Thomas wearing. But I wonder if we can actually assign this item of clothing to Thomas with certainty.
It seems to me that this tank-top shirt is actually meant to be an undershirt. Is it possibly an item of underclothing that an orphan girl might have worn? What do you think?
At any rate, I don’t see the clothing of either Nicholas or Xavier at the massacre site, do you?
Perhaps we should try to compile a list of all the clothing that we can (and can’t) identify at the massacre scene—together with some description of where the clothing is located.
Please post a comment about any clothing you can identify (and its approximate location).
~
Regarding the idea that something bad might have happened to the boys before the massacre occurred, it might be asked: Does the newspaper article about the massacre provide a reason to assert that the boys definitely died during the massacre and not before?
The newspaper article reads:
20 December 1930
A tragic multiple homicide has occurred at an orphanage in Cardington resulting in the deaths of all the children housed there.
Among the dead was one adult, Gregory M. Wilson, a local resident.
Analysis of the crime scene suggests that Wilson shot himself with a pistol.
Police have identified him as their prime suspect in the murders of the children.
The article says that the multiple homicide was responsible for the deaths of “all the children housed there.”
This might seem to rule out the idea that any of the children died before that time.
But the article was flawed in missing the fact that Jennifer survived. And it doesn’t remark on the disappearances of Hoffman, Martha, and Clara. Could it be that the author of the newspaper article was just unaware of any survivors, and so wrongly assumed that the deaths of all of the children were due to the massacre? A later newspaper article, correcting all errors, is something that we never see. Jennifer tells us only that: “At first, it was reported that there were no survivors… Then, word got out that, miraculously, I had escaped the tragedy…” Could it be that “no survivors” was initially thought to mean that Gregory had killed all of the children during the massacre, but that there was much more that was learned subsequently that Jennifer doesn’t tell us about?
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The boys seem to be only in the game because Gregory had a son and the maleness that established needed some counterpart at the orphanage. The boys were not in the club (were they ? ) so why need they be at the slap down ? Probably eliminated in the last act for simplicity’s sake . ROR is a whitchy thing after all.
We do see Thomas retreat under one of the tables during the “Orphans to Imps” cutscene. Thomas, I believe, or Nicholas, is retreating (we see his back) under the table Meg stands on.
This leads me to believe they were part of the club/game.
But why do we never see them when Jennifer is getting punished, even when we can hear them behind the door when she tries to get in the first time?
Here’s a thought. The boys play a game similar to but parallel to what the girls are playing. When kids play on a playground, not all of them like to follow the same rules for a make believe game. Some kids actually LIKE to play the monster. If you ever watch particularly young children on the playground, their game doesn’t always have set limitations. Everyone kind of does their own thing because it’s not as structured as what each one imagines in his or her mind. Everyone is seeing and pretending something different. When one’s game grates against the other’s, then one typically will make themselves known as a higher rank; their game rules win out to the other’s game.
I think that this is what happened when we see Xavier run off with the “sword” or “lever”. I think that he actually may have taken the rat stick. The two games grating against each other. Xavier needs a sword and he knows where there’s a good one. Only problem is, the girls need that stick for their game.
Nicholas and Xavier are always playing knights; dueling, practicing… pretending to be heros. (or black knights; monsters) When they play knights, it fits in with the girl’s game. There’s no friction. No need to worry about one side or the other. They can play their games together, but separate. When the girls need a knight to punish someone or a monster to scare someone, the boys probably wouldn’t have any problem jumping in at the opportunity. Again, together, but separate. In exchange, they’re invited to the “no boys allowed” clubhouse. (the attic)
Thomas doesn’t get in the girl’s way because he plays where no one else wants to play. He’s the king of the playroom.
I think the RCA has a sort of “Out of Sight, Out of Mind” kind of set up for the boys. I think a lot of that is why we don’t see the boys as often as we do the girls. (I can’t see a boy liking the kind of game the girls are playing.)
As for what happened at the Massacre… I did notice one thing. I believe it was in the OUAT chapter.
I’m not certain on this, but I THINK that there is a doll standing in a corner (behind the door, if the door were open). It looks to me (keep in mind, my screen is tiny) that it maybe sort of looks like Thomas. I was thinking maybe Gregory may have chased some of the orphans into the Orphanage. If Thomas was playing in the play room at the time, wouldn’t behind the door be the first place someone (a child) would hide.
(I never saw Olivia’s dress outside either; just the RCA’s clothes and Amanda’s. But that may be just me.)
Hmmm. From what I can currently tell, I don’t actually see Diana’s clothing. I see Eleanor’s yellow dress on the steps, Amanda’s pink outfit furthest away from the rest on the ground, what looks to be Meg’s outfit scattered by the gate near Susan’s dress, and some lighter clothing I absolutely cannot identify near the edge of the path leading to the house. There’s a white shirt with something that looks vaguely like a ribbon on it near something else I can’t identify, and something on the path that looks like a pair of dark trousers. But I don’t see Diana’s dark outfit anywhere and that, I would think, would be one of the easiest outfits to spot.
Wasn’t Thomas wearing a white tank top and a pair of overalls and a hat? If so, then it looks as though his outfit would be there, but it bothers me that all three articles (if I’m seeing right, it looks like the hat is near Amanda’s dress, which confused me until I just made that connection to Thomas like two seconds ago) are much further away from each other than the rest of the outfits, so perhaps I’m grasping at straws.
Well, actually, upon closer inspection, the piece of clothing near Amanda’s outfit looks too square to be a hat. But I don’t recall anyone wearing a skirt that small or dark. At any rate, I am quite stumped as to what it might be. The only things I can identify with absolute certainty are:
- Eleanor’s dress
- Amanda’s dress and overshirt
- Susan’s dress
- Meg’s skirt and vest
The things that escape me:
- the black thing above Amanda’s dress
- the white…blob near Meg’s skirt and vest that could just be her shirt
- the tank top. it could be an undershirt, but the only problem is that it’s near Susan’s and Meg’s outfit, Susan whom I don’t think would need one given the style of her dress, and Meg who already had an undershirt.
- the dark overalls I can only assume to be Thomas’ given the girls are all in skirts or dresses
- the green plaid-looking thing on the edge of the path
- and the white shirt (?) with the ribbon
edit: Okay, I think I ruled out the white shirt near Susan’s and Meg’s outfit as being Meg’s. Hers is long sleeved (and dark green) as I just realized.
The white blob may be Olivia’s dress and I just didn’t notice it. (She seemed to be wearing a light colored dress/pinnifore)
And the ribbon may be hers as well.
As for the rest… cat’s got my tongue.
But since we’ve confirmed Greg commits suicide with his hand gun and we’ve also confirmed it’s inside… I assumed Diana or Wendy ran inside and was followed and on his rampage thorugh the orphanage to find Joshua (or maybe just more peas) he found the gun.
Hence I thought maybe Thomas was hiding in his playroom.
I’m not sure though.
…Ahhhhhh, I definitely see what you mean.
Looking at it right now, it does seem to look rather like Thomas. That’s very intriguing. I’m not sure what to make of that, but I think that’s an interesting find. It would make sense for Thomas to hide in the one place considered his ‘domain’, as it were. Jennifer refers to him as the master of the playroom, so I can easily see him choosing to hide there should something go down like that.
…It certainly makes the huge drawing of Stray Dog on the wall even creepier.
Don’t it though? : shivers:
But if that were the case, where do you think the “missing” orphans got killed?
Do you think maybe where we see drawings of Stray Dog may be sort of indicators? Probably not… but I was trying to figure out… where would they hide? Would Diana go down to the cell of solitude? Would Nicholas and Xavier go to the bathroom to hide? Maybe a stall we see as boarded up is the site of a death?
So does.
…Especially given that he’s on the wall directly across from may-or-may-not-be-Thomas-doll-in-the-corner…staring at him… 8|
Man, it’s the most subtle things in the game you find that can be the most deeply unsettling.
Yeah I think we may have just found Thomas’ death bed… It just seems to fit together as a crime scene, don’t it?
The stray dog on the wall cornering the doll on the other side of the room…
Eeeeee! >< Scarey!
Masq wrote:
How did you confirm that the handgun is inside of the orphanage at some time that would relate it to Gregory bringing it inside?
I am only aware of the handgun being inside of the orphanage because Wendy took it from Gregory’s house at the same time that Wendy took Jennifer away from Gregory’s house.
When you guys are talking about the doll, do you mean the one in the playroom? The one right next to the door, that can’t be interacted with? If so, that’s not unique to the OUAT chapter; I saw that in ‘The Funeral’ (and wasted so much time on loading screens trying to get Jen to do something with it while she stubbornly went through the door
).
It seems inconsistent to me that we’d see a representation of an orphans body in the chapters just before and after the chapter portraying the massacre, and that it’d be the only one we see. I definitely think the doll is relevant, somehow; it seems like it was meant to be noticed, being in the going-through-door cutscene and all that…just not in this context.
PN says:
“How did you confirm that the handgun is inside of the orphanage at some time that would relate it to Gregory bringing it inside?”
Um… I think you misunderstand me. I never said Greg brought the gun inside. I said that the gun was inside and Greg used the gun to commit suicide, therefore, one would assume he had to go inside.
Where did you get that I said Greg brought the gun in?
Emriss:
But aren’t the other dolls in the room also before the OUAT chapter? The room doesn’t change a lot in the Orphanage chapters. It simply being there should mean something.
Masq asked:
My bad. I see that you said that you think that Gregory happened to find it inside of the orphanage at the time of the massacre. It seems to me that this requires that Wendy left it behind, but didn’t bother to hide it, and left it out in the open. Unless you think that Gregory had time to thoroughly search the orphanage.
I tend to think that the gun came into play because Wendy herself brought it out from where she kept it. But that may have occurred even before the massacre: Wendy may have taken the gun with her when she left the orphanage.
Or Wendy might have returned to the orphanage to warn the girls, and then went to get the gun when Gregory started killing, or because she thought that she couldn’t control Gregory.
One can imagine many different scenarios by which Gregory might have taken the gun from Wendy.
I just doubt the story we are shown, that Wendy gave the gun to Jennifer, and then Jennifer gave it to Gregory. I think that is just Jennifer’s dream fantasy.
Perhaps the boys were not as interesting seeing how they were not the ones that caused Browns death. The end was Jennifer’s unplanned revenge that focused on the RCA. In reality there were only three boys in the video game, one who was Joshua. And if there were boy clothes in the outside, who’s to say those are not the Joshua’s that Stray Dog has killed?
: D Yay, this subject came up!
I actually always assumed the boys escaped. They would be alot faster then the girls, and perhaps they escaped into the brush. Then again that’s just me and my wishful thinking. ;_; Though it would match my idea for the sequel well if Nicholas survived…>_>;
Denise wrote:
We only see Joshua, Gregory’s son, in a photograph. The Joshua we see active in the game is Wendy disguised as Joshua.
There are three orphan boys active in the game: Xavier, Nicholas, and Thomas.
There are also some boys names which can be found, for reasons not well understood, on a chart in the classroom and mentioned in Amanda’s diary.
Don’t know if this helps, but what about Gregory’s clothes? He’s standing fully clothed at the beginning of the chapter by the gate, but between then and the time Wendy lets him in, he’s wearing nothing but trousers and scars.
This blog post has stirred my interest enough to go back to the game again, I had been wanting to, but was putting it off for lack of motivation. XP I’ll get right on it. ^^
I was thinking…this IS an orphanage, with a larger number of girls than boys. Children typically have that gender rivalry…and with the girls, specifically Wendy, reigning…what if they were the children sacrificed to Stray Dog?
Wendy must have gotten her rumours started somewhere…why would any of the others believe her if no children had gone missing? The only boy she had any interest in was Joshua…and Jennifer replaced him, so she didn’t have any need for the other boys…
It seems odd they would go missing just as Wendy is diposed, though. Especially since, if Jennifers psuedo memories are to be believed, they had a hand in making her feel like an outcast right before she had to sacrifice Brown or she would have been sacrificed.
That coming to light, i don’t think the boys got sacrificed.
I think if they had, we’d see some sort of clue rather than them being around during the important parts of the RCA’s rituals and then disappearing right as they die.
Now, what happened to their games when RCA’s game ended, I’m not sure. Would they have been effected? Not sure. Would they have felt guilty for what happened to Hoffman/Martha/Clara (if and had they anything to do with it)? More than likely. But why would they sacrifice the boys to “Wendy’s Lie?”
They dont’ believe Wendy anymore. If they dont’ believe in stray dog, why make the sacrifices?
So I don’t think that the boys’ were sacrificed to Stray Dog before the others’. Now, we see a Gate Guard system in the beginning. I think they may have tried to save the girls and gotten killed that way. But I dont’ think they were sacrificed. Maybe they ran into the orphanage. We dont’ know where they died, but I’m almost certain that IF they did die, it would have been at the same time as the other Orphans.
Masq wrote:
The boys are missing at the time that Wendy gets slapped by Jennifer, but why assume that nothing could have happened to them somewhat earlier than that? Which “pseudo-memories” that they have a part in are you referring to, the battle with the imps?
I’m talking about when she gets the notes thrown at her and they’re all seemingly snubbing her. You can hear Xavier and Nicholas’ laughter as they throw two of the notes at her as well as see them in the foyer right before the switch from day to darkness.
Are we sure that means they were there, though? To me it seems more likely that the laughter is imagined, more than it is that she simply didn’t recall or blocked out seeing the boys after that…
If not, though, I’m curious as to how Wendy had all the orphans THAT convinced. Diana, at the very least, was at the age where kids start to scoff at fairy tales…wouldn’t she or some of the others dared Wendy to ‘prove’ Stray Dog’s existence?
Sorry if I’m bringing up points that have been addressed or I’m wrong…I’m intrigued though…
Or, would Jennifer have blocked those orphans from her mind?
Welcome, Golden!
You are one of those that I missed welcoming when you first posted. Sorry about that.
If Jennifer didn’t block Diana from her mind after all the horrible things she did I can’t imagine her blocking the boys… Some of the things they did? Maybe. But the boys themselves? I rather doubt it.
What makes you think she’s “blocking” them? I said before that it is not inconceivable that the boys played alongside but separate from the girls. If this were the case, they may not have had a key role in the destruction of Brown/Jen’s self control. After that, there are a few key people that need to be dealt with in Jen’s head. If they did not have a key role with the Red Crayon Aristocrats, I can imagine they were not on Jen’s list of “to come to terms with” at the moment. After all, we never see what happened to Hoffman and Clara for sure. Seems Jen has no problem dealing with “they disappeared from existance to me.” However, she does have a problem with Brown’s disappearance and the ones responsible for it. (During the cutscene she points out a few specific people and tells them she hates them.)
If the boys were not in direct association with the Red Crayon Aristocrats or Brown’s Death, it’s possible they’re missing as a pardon of sorts. When we hear the screams in “Lying Princess and Stray Dog” (December) I notice a few key ones. Diana’s for sure we hear. Meg’s as well. I believe I hear Eleanor (but it’s hard to imagine what she’d sound like screaming so…) But I can’t pick out the others for certain and certainly no male screams.
I for one, when I was a kid, did not like the sound of screaming in fear or agony. If Jennifer heard the screams of the other orphans, why is she replaying Diana’s and the other RCA high ranking members’ in her mind right now? And no one elses’? I think it may be a sign of her state of mind at the time at or just before the attack. You simply don’t stop being angry just because people apologize. Especially if you’re a child. You can forgive them, but the anger doesn’t simply vanish that way.
So I can think of only two explinations for it. The RCA were the first ones out to make fun of Wendy for screaming Stray Dog is coming and they got attacked before Jen could hide/pass out. After she hid the others died, possibly running from him through the orphanage. OR, she’s simply blocking the screams of those who were, in her mind, innocent (like seeing bags instead of animals?).
Diana seems the sort that would use the situation to her advantage. “In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.” But she can’t really keep up with the charade when the cover is blown, can she? And also, she has to acknowledge that she did some terrible things under the guise of their story. That’s something that’s hard to swallow for anyone when they have to finally face reality. The reality they were blocking by playing their game was catching up with them and they finally realized they couldn’t hide away in a dream because truth would always out.
There were no imps; just children who were scared and childish, just like other children. Children who were at times mistreated. Children who were bound together by committing a terrible act. The murder of a teacher. To get away from punishment and acknowledgment of what theyd done, they “disappeared” on an airship to a far away place. But when one of them shatters their self delusion with the simple truth and the princess, lost in her greif of the one thing she wanted, turns and runs from the truth again, attempting to rekindle her dream.
But in her desparation, something went horribly wrong. Stray Dog went from being the tame puppy she’d planned to use to show them their dream could be real to the nightmare that would end up being the most real.
As for proving he was real before, I’ve always suspected that “proving he was real” wasn’t as important to them as proving they believed he was real. To a child, it’s usually the same thing. I always suspected that was why Wendy “had to give up” Peter the rabbit. To prove she believed her own story by sacrificing Peter. After she did, others higher in the ranking seemed to have to give up something as well to prove they believed in it. Eleanor’s bird which was precious to her; A mermaid, an image precious to Diana; As for “The Goat Sisters”, I’m tempted to say that Meg’s sacrifice may have actually been what Diana took from her. She was gathering information on Stray Dog. If she gathered too much, that would have been disasterous to their game. It would have taken away Diana’s power as well. So I think that’s maybe why Diana, in the real past, pretended Mary, who was the gift of the month, ate Meg’s notebook. Meg didn’t really have a choice wether or not she wanted to play. If she wanted to hang out with Diana, Diana wanted top rung. And she definately didn’t want Meg telling everyone Stray Dog was a lie.
The Stray Dog Lie gave the higher up RCA members power, while allowing them to humiliate the lowers freely when they couldn’t do the impossible things asked of them. Diana is the type who enjoys this type of power. And it allowed Wendy to keep Jennifer from making any other friends, there by securing her place in Jennifer’s heart. At least before Brown appeared.
Also, it gave Meg the superiority that a bookworm normally would not have in a family of this size. I imagine that since she did not make the highest marks in the class (Eleanor did) but was still a bookworm, that she probably got bullied before Diana invited her into the RCA. Hence, possibly, her love for Diana? The Bully who rescued the Bookworm?
I’m not sure what it gave Eleanor except the protection of warmth of belonging against the cold shell that she surrounded herself with. The quiet girl certianly would find it easier to be left alone if she were powerful in the RCA. She could be with people when she wanted and alone when she wanted. Perhaps what she got from it was a sense of control over her life?
Anyway, you can see where the illusion was more or less beneficial for the higher ranking members. Even if they didn’t really believe the fairytales, if they pretended they were true, they got something in return.
I’m reminded of a little cousin of mine. Last year he was nine years old. I asked him what he wanted Santa to bring him. He whispered to me because he didn’t want anyone else to hear, “I don’t believe in Santa Claus, but if I pretend I do, I’ll get better presents in the morning.” Later I heard his mother tell my sister that she doesn’t put out the big presents under the tree until Clayton (my cousin) leaves a plate of cookies and milk for Santa and goes to bed.
Isn’t it funny how kids make the strangest connections?
You bring up LOADS of good points…and thank you, PokerNemesis.
This topic is going to intrigue me for quite a while…
I didn’t mean to cut you off. ^^() : just likes debating:
First, I just wanted to say that I love this site, all the theories are awesome! Secondly, I think I have a theory as to why Diana and the boys’ clothes aren’t in the front with the rest. (I’m kind of tired right now, so sorry if it doesn’t make much sense!)
I agree with Masq, I think that Thomas was in the playroom at the time, but what about Nicholas and Xavier? I think they must have been out front with the others, but maybe those two, along with Diana, weren’t as close as the other childern, so Gregory didn’t go after them immediately.
Masq wrote:
That comment is actually what got this theory of mine started. At the beginning of the game, you can’t go in through the front gate, you have to go around and in through a side gate, where there’s two drawings of Stray Dog. I’m a bit forgetful, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that there’s only three drawings of Stray Dog at the orphanage – the one in the playroom, and the two by this side gate. To be able to get to the front yard after entering this gate, you have to turn right and go through a door in a wood fence.
I think that between Diana, Nicholas and Xavier, one of them might’ve run back inside to try and hide, while the other two might’ve started to run towards this fence to try and escape. If they did run towards the fence, they must’ve made it through – maybe they even got close to the gate – before Gregory caught up with them.
Assuming that the Stray Dog drawing in the playroom across from the “Thomas” doll does mean that the drawings indicate where an orphan died, then the drawing closest to the fence must be where Gregory caught up with them and grabbed the first one. The second kid, probably scared out of their mind at this point (I know I would be!) probably just ran, running right past the gate and over to the other Stray Dog drawing (to the left of gate) where Gregory caught them, too.
Of course, that theory is based on a lot of “maybe”s, so feel free to knock it down. ^^
I wonder if the boys were able to fight off the stray dog because all they ever did was play fight. As for the little prince, I haven’t the foggiest.
The boys didn’t seem to care much about the Aristocrat Club at any point of the game, so it is quite possible they were sleeping at the time and didn’t really bother to go to Brown’s funeral. I am pretty sure they didn’t go to most of the club’s meetings eitherway.
Stray Dog is left alone in the house a few moments in Jennifer’s mind (which could possibly mean a few minutes in the actual event) after she “defeats him” and runs outside to check out what had happened to the girls. So, he might have killed the boys at that point.
Also, I think the reason the police failed to realize one of the children was missing from the scene is because Martha had reported that a child from the orphanage (Wendy, when she left to “train” Gregory so he acted as Stray Dog) had gone missing previously, so when the police came and saw the corpse of a blonde girl (Wendy), they simply assumed it was Jennifer’s as they did the body count.
Welcome, abisal!