To view the things (when doing a replay of the Rule of Rose chapters) talked about in this post, it is best to go to the “options” of the game menu and set the contrast all the way up and the noise filter all the way down… in fact that is probably the best setting to use when examining any of the clues in the game.
In the first chapter (“The Little Princess” chapter) there is an area in the orphanage yard that you can visit that you will never be able to return to at any other time in the game.
As soon as you use the boarding pass to enter the orphanage grounds at the back gate, don’t follow the boy who runs away to the right. Instead, go to the left and through another gate, called the “rear gate” (in a small wooden fence). In the area on the other side you will find a drawing on the wall of the mansion which has the inscription “Stray Dog Kidnaps Kidz” and in front of the drawing you will find a row of eight mysterious objects.
To me, the area looks like some sort of shrine.
Could it be a shrine to Stray Dog?
It isn’t easy (at least for me) to see exactly what these objects are, but here is my opinion, going from left to right:
1. fish head
2. green four-leaf clover, on a stick
3. (I haven’t a clue what this is), on a stick
4. (something small and red–could it be a red bird?), on a stick
5. one-horned Peter
6. (something yellowish, a doll?–and is there a small string looped around the neck and extending upward to where it is tied on part of the stick above?), on a stick
7. blue butterfly, on a stick
8. (something small and gray–a gray teddy bear like we find in the Gingerbread House cellar?), on a stick.
If anyone can offer other suggestions as to the identities of these objects, I’d greatly appreciate reading those suggestions.
To me, the arrangement of these eight objects in front of the Stray Dog drawing suggests they are part of a shrine to Stray Dog.
There isn’t any similar arrangement of objects in front of the other Stray Dog drawing (“Stray Dog Gives Us Sweets) that is located on a different wall of the mansion, so I think that the concern of the Stray Dog cult was NOT getting sweets but, instead, avoiding getting kidnapped.
Might the objects have been put there to commemorate offerings that were made to Stray Dog in hopes of placating him?
There is a scene in a forest at night, at the end of the “Sir Peter” chapter, where a bag is raised up on a rope while the children sing:
Monday’s Pea was a sight to see.
Tuesday’s Pea almost made it free.
Wednesday’s Pea didn’t think to flee.
Stray Dog will have his peas.
Thursday’s Pea made me downright mad.
Friday’s Pea…
(Special thanks to arachnaphobia for figuring out the line for Thursday’s Pea)
Amanda says to Jennifer, during this scene: “Lower classes, like you and me, can’t go up… (I can’t make out this part)…close. We have to pray from a distance.”
This seems to imply that the song being sung is a sort of prayer to, or relating to, Stray Dog. Is the bag meant as a sacrificial offering so that Stray Dog won’t take any of the orphans as a “pea” (that is, won’t kidnap and kill/eat them)?
You can view the You Tube of the scene here: Stray Dog ceremony
Before leaving the shrine area (we’re back at “The Little Princess” chapter now), notice the windows on either side of the Stray dog drawing and notice how the building has a small corner there. Directly above the shrine is the Balcony on which one can find Eleanor during “The Funeral” chapter. In “The Funeral” chapter one can get a camera angle to look down below and see that this is definitely the area below the balcony. But if you exit the gate in the small wooden fence, you will get a camera angle by which you will see that this Balcony area doesn’t have the Balcony railing. I think that this is just a continuity error by the background designers and doesn’t have any significance as a clue.
To make absolutely certain that the Balcony is over the shrine area, one can, in “The Little Princess” chapter, find an orphanage map in the attic by the bloody medical tools. If you find the area of the shrine on the ground floor map and compare this to the area of the Balcony on the first floor map, you will see that they are in exactly the same area: so the Balcony is definitely right over the shrine.
In “The Funeral” chapter, if you go to the Balcony, you can see that there are three ropes tied to the balcony rail and which hang down to the shrine area. The “Stray Dog Kidnaps Kidz” drawing isn’t there, but it looks like some of the sticks (plants?) that are associated with the eight mysterious objects are there.
Here is my proposal about the three ropes: I think that the ropes are there so that the orphans can lower down bagged offerings to Stray Dog, like the offering that we see raised up in the cut-scene in the woods at the end of the “Sir Peter” chapter (the YouTube scene link above).
There are lots of bagged offerings hanging in the Filth Room during “The Funeral” chapter before the imp attack. These bags are no longer in the Filth Room during the imp attack. So I wondered if there might be bags hanging at the end of the three ropes during the imp attack. I looked, but I can’t tell for sure if there are bags hanging there or not. The center rope DOES look to me like there is a bag there, but I’m not absolutely certain (and I know I’m a bit biased because I would like to find that bags ARE hanging from those ropes to support my hypothesis–although I don’t think that NOT finding bags there negates my hypothesis).
So here is some feedback I’d like to get (among whatever other comments you may want to make):
1. What is your opinion on the nature of each of the eight mysterious objects?
2. What do you think of the Stray Dog shrine hypothesis?
3. What do you think about my hypothesis regarding the function of the three ropes?
4. Can you tell if there is a bag tied to the end of any of the ropes during the imp attack in “The Funeral” chapter?
~
Later addition to this blog-post:
I’ve finally found a YouTube playthrough where the player comes to this area. So if you want to have a look at this area (and don’t have the game available to do so), watch this (after 8:36):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IbBJhTC-L8
~
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That is a really interesting theory… I always wondered what those things were in front of the Stray Dog drawing. If I have time later on today, I’ll play through these parts and see if I can figure anything out.
I look forward to what you have to say.
Well, I haven’t looked at the Stray Dog “shrine” yet, but I did go to the balcony to look at the three ropes. I really can’t tell if there are any bags on the ropes, unfortunately. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were, though.
I think that they probably do represent offerings to stray dog. In fact, some of those objects would be the offerings for the aristocrat club.
So here’s my theory: Maybe the reason The Aristocrat Club (AC) would demand offerings was not for personal gain, but to give to Stary Dog?
Let’s analize the objects carefuly:
*Fish head: Diana’s offering, Maybe?
*Clover: Jennifer’s offering? (not really sure)
*One-horned Peter: Wendy’s
*Possible Red bird: Eleanor
*Butterfly: Amanda
*Teddy bear: Also maybe Jennifer’s OR Wendy’s
All of the objects reperesent the members of the AC and what’s most dear to them. I do not have the game (though I have played it) but Pokernemesis, do you think that maybe one of the mysterious objects may look like a goat head, perahps? Just a curious Hypothesis n_n
And about Amanda’s line: “lower classes, like you and me, can’t go up really close. We have to pray from a distance”
elyonum wrote:
—And about Amanda’s line: “lower classes, like you and me, can’t go up really close. We have to pray from a distance”—
The Gamespot/GameFAQs/NeoSeeker game script FAQ (by TheSinnerChrono ) gave the line the same way, but it didn’t sound to me like a good fit at the time that I wrote the above post, so I didn’t use it. Listening to it now, however, I think you are both right. I think I can hear it now.
^ yeah, I wish the voice actress wouldn’t snarl and gurgle so much when she spoke XP
Though it does give a good effect XD
elyonum wrote:
—So here’s my theory: Maybe the reason The Aristocrat Club (AC) would demand offerings was not for personal gain, but to give to Stray Dog?—
I like that theory, and have, in fact, proposed that idea before in some RoR forum posts that have long ago disappeared. Certainly it seems that Peter was meant as a gift/sacrifice to Stray Dog, so why not the other “monthly gifts” as well?
elyonum wrote:
—All of the objects represent the members of the AC and what’s most dear to them.—
For some reason, I had never considered matching the “mysterious objects” to particular orphans. It is a very interesting idea. What I can’t figure out, thinking this way, however, is why are there EIGHT objects?
elyonum wrote:
—I do not have the game (though I have played it) but Pokernemesis, do you think that maybe one of the mysterious objects may look like a goat head, perhaps? Just a curious Hypothesis n_n—
Nothing seemed like that to me, but those objects aren’t easy to discern. It took me a long time before I recognized one-horned Peter (although now it seems very obvious).
“I like that theory, and have, in fact, proposed that idea before in some RoR forum posts that have long ago disappeared. Certainly it seems that Peter was meant as a gift/sacrifice to Stray Dog, so why not the other “monthly gifts” as well?”
I was watching gameplay videos just now, and I think that it’s something small, but worth mantioning: When “Joshua” is talking to Jennifer while she’s tied up, “he” says: “Every month, you have to bring a gift TO the Arictocrat Club”
I know it’s small, but I wonder why he didn’t say “Bring a gift FOR the Aristocrat Club”, unless they weren’t recieving the gift at all, but passing them on to someone else (Stray Dog)?
elyonum wrote:
—I was watching gameplay videos just now, and I think that it’s something small, but worth mentioning: When “Joshua” is talking to Jennifer while she’s tied up, “he” says: “Every month, you have to bring a gift TO the Aristocrat Club”
I know it’s small, but I wonder why he didn’t say “Bring a gift FOR the Aristocrat Club”, unless they weren’t receiving the gift at all, but passing them on to someone else (Stray Dog)?—
I think you’ve made a good point.
I always thought that the “shrine” your speaking of were the graves of the murdered children….each grave is marked with some sort of symbolic item, unique to each character…?
but i must agree that the thought of a shrine to stray dog is more logical, since he was the one writing the stories? each one is marked with a theme from his books?
Welcome Stace!
I count 8 “objects” as part of the shrine. Trying to find a match for the number 8 is a challenge.
There are 11 chapters in the Rule of Rose game, so I think there must be 10 storybooks (as the “Gingerbread House” chapter doesn’t have a storybook associated with it but all the other chapters each have one storybook):
March 1930: “The Little Princess”
April 1930: “The Unlucky Clover Field”
May 1930: “Sir Peter”
July 1930: “Bird of Happiness”
August 1930: “Mermaid Princess”
September 1930: “The Goat Sisters”
June 1929: “The Gingerbread House”
October 1930: “Rag Princess Sews”
November 1930: “The Funeral”
December 1930: “Stray Dog and the Lying Princess”
January 1930: “Once Upon a Time…”
Trying to match the storybooks, or perhaps months rather than storybooks, one might try the months starting with March (the month of Jennifer’s arrival at the orphanage), skipping June 1929 as a month out of sequence (and without a storybook), and going up to November:
March 1930: “The Little Princess”
April 1930: “The Unlucky Clover Field”
May 1930: “Sir Peter”
July 1930: “Bird of Happiness”
August 1930: “Mermaid Princess”
September 1930: “The Goat Sisters”
October 1930: “Rag Princess Sews”
November 1930: “The Funeral”
(but this leaves June 1930 missing, month-wise)
Does this have any special significance? I don’t know.
If we count the number of orphans, excluding Clara and Jennifer we get:
1. Diana
2. Meg
3. Eleanor
4. Amanda
5. Olivia
6. Susan
7. Thomas
8. Xavier
9. Nicholas
One possible match for the number eight would be the number of female orphans (including Jennifer and Clara):
1. Diana
2. Meg
3. Eleanor
4. Amanda
5. Olivia
6. Susan
7. Clara
8. Jennifer
Is this a significant match? I don’t know.
Even though the gingerbread house chapter doesn’t have an actual storybook, there is still a story…
wow i never noticed that before
so after the funeral level, in the stray dog level, the kids don’t believe wendy anymore
so what happened to their offerings to stray dog? did wendy take them to gregory or maybe just disposed of them?
not to mention bout the ropes, yeah it could be an offering, or it could have been an early sign that the imps had been there
every time a you beat a chapter which takes place in a certain part of the ship, when you revisit that area, it’s covered in ropes right? I dunno just a thought
I looked at the eight mysterious objects…PN`s eyesight is better than mine, but the object with the horn that I think PN identified as Peter….I see what appears to be a head with a horn, but the head is brown and looks like a fox, if this is the same object it can`t be Peter
That one of the eight mysterious objects is a four leaf clover for me settles it, that is this area ( the crosses ) is ony dream stuff, not an indication of animal sacrifice
I want to point out that the Japanese version’s subtitles may provide extra insight.
When it says “come Wednesday we didn’t think the flee” the Japanese says “Wednesday, (we) gave up.”
Just noticed this.
ceru wrote:
—When it says “come Wednesday we didn’t think the flee” the Japanese says “Wednesday, (we) gave up.”—
Not “we.” It’s “Wednesday’s pea.”
In the case of the orphans’ pea song, the Japanese translation might actually be inferior to the English because this song is in English even in the Japanese version (which I initially played, before the other versions came out, BTW). The English language version of the song probably precedes the Japanese translation of it.
Well of course, but the Japanese word choice still could provide clues.
Edit: Missed your first post. Wednesday’s pea? Ohh hmm
OOOH! Poker! Amanda is saying “Lower classes like you and me can’t go up really closer” She drags out the ‘Really’ to sort of emphasise it. You can see her mouth wording ‘really’ as well if you pay attention.
Welcome, Katie Tidwell!
Thanks for your input!
You’re welcome! Happy to help.
I was just playing through the Sir Peter chapter agian and after hearing the song sung at the end it got me thinking, if peas = humans in Gregory’s story who’s to say the kids aren’t singing about the human sacrifices they have made? If we assume that the kids gave the adults to Gregory as sacrifices, prehaps in place of animals then the song makes sense.
Look-
Monday’s pea was a sight to see- Could be either Clara or Martha, both the Martha beatdown and the Clara boss were very interesting to say the least. I’m thinking Clara is more likely for this one.
Tuesday’s pea almost made it free- Hoffman tried to leave but since he had a death scene in the game I assume he didn’t make it very far.
Wednesday’s Pea didn’t think to flee- Agian could be either Clara or Martha, both didn’t seem to notice the orphans becoming more and more violent, I think Martha is more likely for this one.
Thursday’s pea made me downright mad- Jennifer or Brown, the aristocracy hated them both and obviously intended to kill one of them if the funeral chapter is anything to go by.
I’m assuming around November Wendy and/or the aristocracy desided that the adults were too dangerous to have around, could have started with Hoffman touching Diana and snowballed from there. Maybe they justified killing them by saying they were sacrifices to Stray Dog?
Navigator,
Yours is an interesting hypothesis. But of those four, Hoffman would have been the first, chronologically speaking.
Jennifer tells us, in the “Once Upon a Time” chapter:
I think they say:
“Lower classes, like you and me, can’t go up -really- close.” But she drags “really” it out so it’s hard to understand ay first.
“Friday’s Peas didn’t fare much better.”
“Saturday’s Peas didn’t stick together.”
“But then we…” Something, or something, I can’t really tell. I give up. Amanda is too loud, I can’t make it out.
And then the singing cuts right as Amanda starts to says “We have to pray from…”
I think it cuts off after that last line of singing finishes, begins again as they hoist the bag for a moment, and then finishes completely for Meg.
Alright, I can’t figure out how to edit (what e-mail? Where do I put it?), so when I said:
“Lower classes, like you and me, can’t go up -really- close.” But she drags “really” it out so it’s hard to understand ay first.
I’d like to add:
It might be “really” as other’s say, but I hear “real”. I was going to put “real”, but I read the comments and changed my mind. Darn.
I was just thinking, maybe each ‘offering’ refers to different chapters or story books?
Let’s see…in no particular order:
The Unlucky Clover Field = Butterfly or clover (I’m only adding the clover here because of the name of the chapter. I could be wrong about a connection)
Sir Peter = one-horned Peter
Bird of Happiness = thing that looks like a red bird
Mermaid Princess = Fish head
And the gifts in each chapter are:
Sir Peter – Peter the rabbit
Bird of Happiness – red bird
Mermaid Princess – Mermaid
The Unlucky Clover Field – Butterfly
That leave the other four items and the rest of the chapters…
Let’s see, gifts in other chapters are…
Joshua the Bear
Jennifer
Brown
If one of those things is a bear then it could represent the bear doll, and the thing that looks like a doll with rope could represent Jennifer. I wouldn’t have a clue about the other things though.
Also I should add I haven’t been able to make out what the items are. I’m just going on the descriptions in the above. lol I need a better tv.
Anyway, does anyone else see a bit of a connection? Or is it just me?
Oh, and I just had another thought…
Still missed a lot though)
The three ropes could represent Hoffman, Clara, and Martha. Three ropes, three people, all may have died in a way relating to hanging/ropes. Sort of like more offerings.
Also I haven’t seen these ropes either, so I’m just speculating (but I have finally finished the game
Cherrona:
The lack of clarity is very frustrating. I spent a lot of time staring at my TV set trying to make visual sense of those objects. It isn’t easy.
“The lack of clarity is very frustrating. I spent a lot of time staring at my TV set trying to make visual sense of those objects. It isn’t easy. (ummm… quote??)”
Have anyone tried with an emulator, i remember seeing more definition in psx games in youtube with emulators (but the txtures were all blurry), maybe with that we can see better, i think i’ll try to play this far later, but looks like no emulator works good enough, ill try anyway…. (is it legal to talk about emulator in this site? since we have the game i think theres no problem, right??)
Jay wrote:
This sort of sounds like you might not realize that the only time one can see these objects is early in the first chapter of the game (turn LEFT as soon as Jennifer enters the first orphanage gate and then pass through the rear gate).
Forgive me if I misunderstood and you were indeed clear on this already.
Jay asks:
I’ve never heard of an emulator before. What is it?
PokerNemesis wrote:
You’ve probably already googled by now, but here’s a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_emulator
Basically it’s a program or something that is used to play older games on a different format. It can also be used to play pirated games, but we’ll just focus on the good points.
To find the items in the game and have a closer look I think ROM Hacking or whatever it’s called would be useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROM_hacking
I’ve seen online some people have used it to find interesting things in Silent Hill 3. Things not normally seen in game.
To be honest though I don’t really know much about either.
It would be great if some tool could be used to get a good look at some of the documents that have writing which can’t be read normally (such as the document on the table in the secret-Airship-room/Japanese-names-attic-room).
PokerNemesis said:
I wouldn’t have a clue on how to access any of the stuff in the game. But here’s a thread at Silent Hill Heaven with some of the things other people have been able to find on SH3 using hacks or whatever:
http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11975
Just imagine some of the stuff just waiting to be found on RoR. ^_^
Thanks, I’ll look into it.
I asked a friend if he knows anything about doing this, and he just suggested inserting the game into the computer and googling the file extensions.
I haven’t had a chance to look into it much, but I saw the movie files are PSS.
I found a small tutorial on extracting and playing PSS files:
http://www.console-exploits.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11287
As for backgrounds and in-game items I can’t make sense of all the other folders. o_O
Oh, and sorry for going so far off topic. lol
“Forgive me if I misunderstood and you were indeed clear on this already.”
—————-
Yeah, i know, i didn’t explained it well, my fault, i said that seems that no emulator works good enough cause once i tried a japanese version of Persona 3 with one (cause my ps2 is american and blah, blah, you know) but it was running at 2 fps, so playing even a few minutes at 2 frames per seconds is really annoying… and the first 10 minutes of Persona 3 are cutscenes and dialogue, so imagine how nice was that…
So okay, i’ve been messing around with it, and i really don’t know if im helping or not with this cause i dunno if the resolution i’m getting can be achieved with a Tv, im asumming you can’t, but anyway….
There were a lot of glitches, as you can see, and when you are close to some objects they dissapear, theres like a layer over the screen that erases some objects while you move (it’s hard to explain actually), thats why i was moving around trying to get the most objects at once….
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8140/gsdx20081227204314nj6.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6099/gsdx20081227204513yr1.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6251/gsdx20081227210048yy3.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4261/gsdx20081227205634pm4.jpg
I think that last one is actually the Goat Doll’s head, i thought it was an Imp’s head but im not sure, as you can see it disspaears when the other objects are in the middle of the screen… but still, is very glitchy, i think that even there is just half of it… it just kept dissapearing, it was hard to take another picture.
As i said, i dunno if this is better than a normal Tv, i compared to mine with the following pictures and it looks alot better here:
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/369/gsdx20081227203121ht2.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7931/gsdx20081227202517wo5.jpg
Notice the folds in the top of the bag and the perfectly noticeable rat drawing (or cat?), tho the camera moves really fast to notice normally, i took that cause it was reaaaaaaally slow while emulating, also the Stray Dog sign is completly blurry in my Tv, and here it is crystal clear…
I think ill keep tryng but tell me first if this is working cause the max i got was 8 frames per seconds at 99% CPU usage, i thought my Pc was going to explode, tho right now this is the best i got, and i dont know if those transparents polygons can be fixed.
So yeah, Goat’s head…. i think.
Good job, Jay!
I think that this is the first time that pictures of these objects have been available on the internet.
~
Your pics have helped me make a discovery: I’ll make my next blog-post about it.
I wrote:
I just now noticed that I inadvertently left Wendy off of both of those lists. Sorry.
If the object to the far right of this picture is only a water pipe with a faucet handle, the number of mysterious objects (i.e. potential shrine objects, or whatever, is reduced to seven).
I have no idea what the pipe could mean (lol not much help am I?), but why would it be there if it was just a pipe? Also if you don’t include Clara, as she wasn’t in the club, and include Wendy, your list is still 8. 8 for 8.
Though it is hard to make out, the image above looks like to be some weapons (Wait.. a pipe was a weapon.. right? ah! SH and ROR get mixed in my head from time to time) But i do see a fork.. and a Spoon, who who knows, If i have a bit of time with that image, i might uncover more objects in it.
the far right , to me at least, looks like:
first a three-leaf clover
and a piece of orange/red ribbon tied in a neat bow.
then we see one-horned peter.
than i interpret that tall structure to resemble a tall bird-imp. I notice a mustard-yellow cloth that appears to be tied in a bundle near the center [which reminds me of Eleanor's dress-thing]. The eating utensils help me theorize this because I think of that bloody red-bird in the bathroom stall in the ‘Bird of Happiness’ chapter…
Hmm. Just some observations on my part 8D
Your theory is head on to me.
I noticed the ribbon after i posted, and made out a few more things
I think that might be the whole Eleanor area…
That came out weird.. but.. you know what i mean?
Those all look like the objects that need to be found in the airship
Welcome, Cain!
Sorry, I haven’t read all the comments and I don’t know the picture now, but
“3. (I haven’t a clue what this is), on a stick”
could it be the rat (dead now) that was used to humiliate Jennifer? It was tied to a stick.
I’ve finally found a YouTube playthrough where the player comes to this area. So if you want to have a look at this area (and don’t have the game available to do so), watch this (after 8:36):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IbBJhTC-L8
~
It has NOTHING to do with the objects or the ropes, but it just fitted nowhere else, since only here appears the stray dog chant (and you, Nemesis, are the only one who can make such blog entrys, I think xD)
One suggestion to the part about a stray dog cult.
I noticed one thing just now which I found nowhere here.
That prayer about the peas and straydog:
Ever thought about HOW the children know about that?
Because Stray dog aka Gregory was the first to call (as assumed) children peas. But somehow the orphans know that and use it in their prayer song, also using the term pea for children (or, in Sir Peter, also adults). Also the similar way of both songs using the same kind of repeats (in stray dogs song it almost always starts with “he” after the name of the day, in the orphans song it’s always “Pea”, the only sentences where that pattern does not appear is the line that gives the hint to the scary part [stray dog eating children and children being captured and feeling fear by screaming and kicking])
That could make a great link to the theory, if Wendy or Jennifer is the seem-to-be-Joshua (as you suggest by the question in another blog “How could Jennifer watch Gregory from outside the room”).
If Jennifer is Joshua, then she must have told the aristocrats about the peas.
But would they believed her?
I think, not really, since she is always bullied and was one of the lowest in rank.
Well, Wendy could have heard it from the window (where she appears in the Gingerbread House and also the first letters seem to be exchanged through the window), but would it have any greater importance to her, what kind of lullaby was Gregory singing?
If Wendy is Joshua, then she was the one who always heard that song of the kicking and screaming pea, maybe even being the one, who got the pea soup and being the one Gregory shows the pea. If it was really cannibalism and Wendy saw childs those moments, it would have been something she would remember for sure.
If it scared her a bit, she would also know that it could be used in the orphanage for making the other kids submissive, since she knows the most as Joshua who lived with “stray dog” once. Also is she the one using the knowledge that Gregory aka stray dog is the killer. She knows that no one else but him is doing the kidnapping, where does that knowledge come from if not by direct experience?
This are just my thoughts about the whole song matter, but I thought it over the whole day searching for clues. I would like to know, what others think about that idea of mine
Excellent comment, MangaEngel ! A lot of food for thought here. I’ll answer one small point at a time, to keep my comments at an easily digestible size. Eating metaphors intentional.
Jennifer was indeed a “Joshua”, but I think, when you ask about Jennifer as Joshua, your concern is over whether she could be the Joshua in Gregory’s diary or the son shown the peas, right?
If I am right about placing Jennifer’s memory of overhearing, at the window, Gregory’s Stray Dog story, at the time of her first arrival at Gregory’s house, then the showing of the peas to “the son” was before her time there. See my blog-posts:
See-all Walkthrough, with Commentary: “The Gingerbread House” Chapter (Part 9a): Jennifer Outside at the Cellar Window
See-all Walkthrough, with Commentary: “The Gingerbread House” Chapter (Part 9b): Jennifer Outside at the Cellar Window
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Before I began this Rule of Rose Mysteries blog-site, I had written a lengthy and detailed theory—at the GameSpot/GameFAQs forum—explaining how Jennifer might have experienced that memory at the window very late in her stay at Gregory’s house. To make a very long story short, this was an evil Wendy theory and depended on Wendy having such control of Gregory that Wendy could just tell Gregory to let Jennifer out and it would happen. I had explanations for why Jennifer would return to the cellar and why there was a need to go through the escape process when Jennifer left for good. By this theory, even a small time apart from Jennifer would have Gregory putting a gun to his head (giving the reason that Jennifer would not leave without the gun being taken too). The stealthy escape process was more about getting the gun than getting Jennifer away (since Jennifer was able, at times, to be on her own outside of the house if Wendy told Gregory to allow it). I revisit this idea in my blog-post See-all Walkthrough, with Commentary: “The Gingerbread House” Chapter (Part 9c): Jennifer Outside at the Cellar Window.
GameFAQs/GameSpot threads have a way of disappearing into the ether—and I haven’t any copies of what I wrote at the time saved anywhere—which is why the people who were frequenting that Rule of Rose forum at the time started clamoring for me to start this blog, where my theories would be preserved.
At any rate, I AM open to alternative theories of Jennifer at the cellar window overhearing Gregory’s story.
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As for Jennifer possibly being the Joshua of the diary entries, my analysis in When Did the Airship Crash? leads me to doubt that this is possible.
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I’ll answer some of your other issues later.
It is possible that the Stray Dog tale was one Gregory actually wrote down and drew at some point. Later on, Jennifer or Wendy found it in his house and took it to the orphans. Or maybe even Gregory himself dropped it somewhere near the orphanage (near the bus stop, for example) and the kids found it and learned about Stray Dog capturing peas and stuff.
I didn’t read through all the comments, so someone might have mentioned this already.
Maybe the eight objects correspond to the monthly gifts you have to find during the game (butterfly, peter, fish head, bird, bear, Jennifer)?
Oh, and when Amanda says “Lower classes like you and me… etc.” I think the part you can’t make out is a drawn out “really” So like, “Lower classes, like you and me, can’t go up reeaally close. We have to pray from a distance.”
Oh, somebody’s already suggested that. Sorry. XD XD
I figured someone would have. I didn’t have time to read through all of the comments. XD
XD XD Oh, no, that wasn’t directed towards you. Someone already suggested what I had said. XD XD
But, I did wish I knew the Friday’s Pea line!!
I’m sure someone had the same idea, but I always assumed they were like headstones for the orphans who died. The only problem would be that there aren’t enough, unless some of them were lumped together, like the fork symbolizing Olivia while it’s laying on a bigger headstone that might symbolize someone who was higher up in the Aristocrat chain. But that’s just a thought…
@Rebo
Well, if we take that thought, then…
who did put the things there?
Jennifer?
She was brought away by the police after the massacer.
Also we could think, that they were there BEFORE Jennifer came to the orphanage or at least before the massacer since she sees them in the first chapter.
The only way they could be there longer would be that Jennifer indeed did put them there after the massacer, but forces that event to another place in her memory. To the beginning, as some kind of warning for the cruel things coming. But even then, they wouldn’t have the meaning of gravestones, more like a warning signal.
Like “If you go to this orphanage, all these things will come back to you”
Jennifer memories are somehow unreliable and the Little Princess chapter seem out of place in the time line. Just like Once upon a time, Jennifer could have been constructed this chapter on her own will. So, the mysterious objects could have been anything else than Headstones placed by Jen. Just my though…
I believe that we can see some of the “mysterious objects” (although the Stray Dog drawing is missing, and I don’t know whether we should make anything of that or not) throughout The Funeral chapter, if we look down from the outside balcony.
Welcome, Rebo!